Chalk & Talk

Transforming education through behaviour science with Kimberly Berens (Ep 34)

Join Anna Stokke in conversation with Dr. Kimberly Berens in Episode 34 of Chalk & Talk. Kimberly is a behaviour scientist, an author, and the founder of FIT Learning.  They discuss the fundamentals of behaviour science, the importance of measurable outcomes, the role of reinforcement, and the application of behaviour science to effective instruction, particularly in math.  They also cover concepts like fluency, retention, and endurance in learning.  They discuss the effectiveness of Direct Instruction, precision teaching and curriculum-based measurement in bringing about significant improvements in student performance.
Kimberly is a passionate advocate for systematic educational change based on scientific approaches.  This episode will be of interest to educators, parents, policy makers, and anyone with an interest in improving educational outcomes.
NOTE: The resource page contains a list of research articles mentioned in the episode: annastokke.com/ep-34-resources
TIMESTAMPS:
[00:00:00] Introduction  [00:02:25] Understanding behaviour science [00:05:23] Behaviour science vs. cognitive science [00:08:28] Defining fluency [00:12:40] Applying behaviour science to math instruction [00:18:01] Do different students learn differently? [00:22:43] How to measure learning [00:28:47] Math anxiety, math trauma and the problem with labels [00:34:56] Combining DI, precision teaching and curriculum-based measurement[00:38:40] The problem with hand raising [00:42:00] Flexible ability grouping [00:47:20] Breaking ineffective traditions [00:51:49] Measuring conceptual understanding[00:57:41] Project Follow Through [01:00:20] The Great Falls Precision Teaching Project [01:03:28] Fit Learning's practices and outcomes [01:06:37] Final thoughts and call to action 
RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Ep 32.  Identifying and educating advanced students with Jonathan Pluckerhttps://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-y6cxs-16ad6f1
Ep 30.  Math fluency matters with Brian Poncyhttps://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-pj6z6-166741e
Ep 17. Do timed tests cause math anxiety? with Robin Coddinghttps://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-9qahp-14aed8a
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-34-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-34-resources
MUSIC
Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch itBlue Dot Sessions – Little Poder, Tall HarveyPodington Bear – Camp, Kitten
Website: www.annastokke.com
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c
 
 
 

Educational leadership: Improving math and literacy with Scott Hill (Ep 33)

Host Anna Stokke speaks with Scott Hill, Superintendent of Evergreen School Division. They discuss Evergreen's proactive approach to improving education, particularly focusing on mathematics and literacy.  Scott shares how his division tackled low math scores by interviewing students, addressing behaviour issues, employing structured instructional methods, and providing consistent common assessments.
They also touch on broader pedagogical narratives, the role of schools in society, and the importance of setting higher expectations for students. Additionally, Scott highlights the critical strides made in early literacy instruction, with Evergreen School Division being recognized with a national award from Dyslexia Canada.  A key takeaway from this episode is that strong leadership, data-informed decision making, and a commitment to addressing weaknesses can significantly impact student learning. 
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:03:39] Evergreen School Division's math challenges and student feedback
[00:08:43] Grade inflation and reporting to parents
[00:11:24] Divisional changes to improve math scores
[00:14:42] Higher expectations for students
[00:20:05] The role of schools in society
[00:26:02] Is inquiry-based pedagogy accomplishing the stated goals?
[00:30:45] Instructional caricatures and foundational skills
[00:37:09] Setting behavioural standards
[00:40:02] Cell phones in schools
[00:46:01] Common assessments and provincial exams
[00:56:30] Award-winning literacy initiatives
[01:01:08] Final thoughts
RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Ep 1 Math and the myth of ability with John Mightonhttps://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-22c7a-139dc72
Ep 18 Education myth-busting with Daisy Christodoulouhttps://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-z2q9q-14ce080
Ep 20 Reading and math: parallels and pitfalls with Matthew Burnshttps://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-8aj3f-1508af6
Ep 27 Using evidence in education with Pamela Snow https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-jc9mq-161ecac
Ep 30 Math fluency matters with Brian Poncyhttps://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-pj6z6-166741e
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-33-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-33-resources
MUSIC
Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch itBlue Dot Sessions – Cornicob Podington Bear – Camp
Website: www.annastokke.com
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c

Identifying and educating advanced students with Jonathan Plucker (Ep 32)

Math professor Anna Stokke speaks with Dr. Jonathan Plucker, a professor and director of the Education Policy Program at Johns Hopkins University, about advanced education, acceleration and academic streaming. Jonathan discusses the flaws in traditional methods of identifying advanced students and advocates for universal screening to ensure equitable access to advanced programs. They cover various interventions, including acceleration, and discuss the drawbacks of de-streaming or anti-acceleration policies. They also discuss equity concerns.
They talk about flexible ability grouping, the need to challenge stereotypes about advanced students, and more.  Jonathan emphasizes that education should meet the needs of every student, including students who excel academically, and he provides concrete advice for accomplishing that. A key takeaway from this episode is that offering advanced programs benefits all students and, ideally, every school should include advanced programming.  This episode is a must-listen for educators of any subject, parents and policymakers.
NOTE: The resource page contains a list of research articles mentioned in the episode: annastokke.com/ep-32-resources
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:00] Introduction 
[00:03:42] Terminology: gifted or advanced? 
[00:07:58] Are labels a problem?
[00:10:54] Identifying advanced students
[00:21:13] Equity in advanced programs
[00:25:28] Meeting the needs of advanced students
[00:27:46] Effective interventions for advanced students
[00:31:29] Enrichment vs. acceleration
[00:34:59] Supporting learners beyond minimum competency
[00:38:42] The case of San Francisco Unified School District
[00:43:14] Problems with de-streaming and anti-acceleration programs
[00:48:16] Flexible ability grouping: A solution?
[00:53:18] Who benefits from flexible ability grouping?
[00:54:53] The impact of de-streaming on teachers and students
[00:58:42] What needs to change to support advanced students
 
RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Ep 11. California’s math controversy with Jelani Nelson, Part I https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-d3bai-144ec76
Ep 12. California’s math controversy with Jelani Nelson, Part II https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-93gm5-144fc4c
Ep 15. Modern relevance in the math curriculum with Brian Conrad https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-gek66-148967a
Ep 19. The Calculus Project with Adrian Mims https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-fkbjk-14eb0a7
Ep 25. Understanding math reform ideology with Tom Loveless https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-7ih4c-15dbf9a
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-32-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-32-resources
MUSIC
Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch itBlue Dot Sessions – No Squirrel Connection, Cornicob, BaltiPodington Bear – Camp
Website: www.annastokke.com

Exploring evidence for equitable education with Nidhi Sachdeva and Jim Hewitt (Ep 31)

Join math professor Anna Stokke in conversation with Dr. Nidhi Sachdeva and Dr. Jim Hewitt, educators and researchers at the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education (OISE) at the University of Toronto. They discuss their co-designed course on the science of learning and its impact on educational practice. The episode expands on their recent presentation on equitable instruction at ResearchEd Canada, covering instructional techniques effective in closing the achievement gap.
Key topics include explicit instruction, the benefits of retrieval practice, formative assessments, and the importance of addressing educational myths. They also explore the implications of Project Follow Through and evaluate other educational approaches like collaborative learning, culturally responsive teaching, and social-emotional learning. The conversation emphasizes the need for evidence-based strategies to promote equity in education.
This episode is essential listening for educators, parents, and anyone committed to narrowing education achievement gaps.
NOTE: The resource page contains a list of research articles mentioned in the episode: annastokke.com/ep-31-resources
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:00] Introduction[00:03:33] Key topics in the Science of Learning course[00:09:38] Integrating microlessons into instruction[00:12:50] Debunking educational myths[00:17:17] Equitable instruction[00:21:21] Inclusive instruction[00:22:18] Reducing inequities 1:  Explicit instruction [00:30:27] Project Follow Through[00:35:10] Reducing inequities 2: Retrieval practice[00:41:34] Reducing inequities 3: Formative assessment & feedback[00:46:55] Research on small-group learning[00:51:09] Culturally responsive teaching[00:54:14] Social-emotional learning[00:55:52] Strengths and limitations of differentiated instruction[00:58:41] Advocating for science of learning courses[01:00:12] Closing thoughts on equitable instruction
RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Ep 2. Evidence-based teaching strategies with Paul Kirschner https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zgw6i-13b33df
Ep 10. Maximizing learning through explicit instruction with Zach Groshell https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-px8h6-1443528
Ep 22.  Mindsets and misconceptions with Carl Hendrick https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-78zv9-15493b1
Ep 24. Raising student achievement with Dylan Wiliam https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-kduiw-15bba36
Ep 27. Using evidence in education with Pamela Snow https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-jc9mq-161ecac
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-31-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-31-resources
MUSIC
Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch itBlue Dot Sessions – Little Poder, Tall HarveyPodington Bear – Camp, Kitten
Website: www.annastokke.com
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c

Math fluency matters with Brian Poncy (Ep 30)

In the second episode of a two-part series, math professor Anna Stokke sits down with Dr. Brian Poncy, a school psychology professor at Oklahoma State University, who specializes in math interventions. His extensive research on basic fact fluency led to the development of a free math program called M.I.N.D, aimed at improving numeracy and computational skills.
They begin by discussing five compelling reasons that fluency is crucial. Brian shares his research on dosage, which addresses the frequency and duration of practice for math skills. 
Anna asks Brian to define conceptual understanding, and they explore its relationship with procedural skill. They also discuss explicit timing and address concerns about anxiety. Brian emphasizes the importance of data-driven decision-making and more.
A key takeaway from these two episodes is that achieving fluency with basic facts requires daily practice—every school day, not just once a week or every other day. The specifics are covered in this episode.
As Brian emphasizes, basic fact fluency results in significant effects with minimal investment in instructional time. These two episodes shine a light on the challenges many children face with math and highlight research-backed methods to improve math education.
NOTE: The resource page contains an extensive list of research articles mentioned in the episode: annastokke.com/ep-30-resources
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:00] IntroductionFive reasons math fluency is important[00:02:42] Reason 1: More opportunities to respond [00:05:50] Reason 2: Increased rates of reinforcement[00:10:07] Reasons 3 & 4: Knowledge maintenance & reducing cognitive load[00:12:35] Reason 5: Skill generalization[00:20:16] Defining conceptual understanding[00:25:31] Relationship between conceptual understanding & fluency building[00:28:35] Research on dosage: how much to practice[00:36:05] To mix or not to mix skills[00:38:58] Explicit timing with goal setting and rewards[00:42:29] Explicit timing and math anxiety[00:47:54] Making data-based decisions[00:52:30] Advice for schools
RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Ep 2. Evidence-based teaching strategies with Paul Kirschner https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zgw6i-13b33df
Ep 3. The Science of Math with Amanda VanDerHeyden https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-bksbz-13c732d
Ep 4. Cognitive load theory with Greg Ashman https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-thbad-13cea56
Ep 17. Do timed tests cause math anxiety? with Robin Codding https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-9qahp-14aed8a
Ep 27. Using evidence in education with Pamela Snow https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-jc9mq-161ecac
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-30-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-30-resources
MUSIC
Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it
Blue Dot Sessions – Thannoid, Tarte Tatin, Mazamorra, Cornicob
Podington Bear – Camp
Website: www.annastokke.com
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c

Math fact crisis: strategies for improving numeracy with Brian Poncy (Ep 29)

In this first episode of a two-part series, math professor Anna Stokke sits down with Dr. Brian Poncy, a school psychology professor at Oklahoma State University, who specializes in math interventions. His extensive research on basic fact fluency led to the development of a free math program called M.I.N.D, aimed at improving numeracy and computational skills.
In the episode, Brian stresses that we have a basic fact crisis where many students struggle with basic fact fluency, affecting their overall math proficiency. They discuss his research and effective strategies for teaching basic facts and computational skills.
The conversation begins with a description of the instructional hierarchy, a tool for identifying a student's learning stage and selecting suitable tasks, with an accompanying infographic available on the episode resource page. Anna asks Brian to define some key terms such as fluency, automaticity and mastery.  They discuss the impact of his free program, M.I.N.D, particularly its implementation in a low-performing school. They also cover research on decomposition strategies and emphasize the importance of data collection to inform instruction.
Throughout the episode, Brian shares strategies used in the M.I.N.D program, revealing his deep passion for helping children learn math. These two episodes shine a light on the challenges many children face with math and highlight research-backed methods to improve math education.
NOTE: The resource page contains an extensive list of research articles mentioned in the episode: annastokke.com/ep-29-resources
TIMESTAMPS
[00:00:00] Introduction[00:03:26] Definition of fluency[00:04:40] The instructional hierarchy [00:14:27] Interventions for building accuracy and fluency[00:22:38] Definition of automaticity[00:30:24] Definition of mastery[00:34:53] Facts on Fire for Tier 1 instruction[00:44:54] Research on decomposition strategies for mental math[00:50:07] Implementing Facts on Fire: A longitudinal study[01:00:53] The need to make data-informed decisions[01:01:45] Closing thoughts and topics in next episode
RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES
Ep 2. Evidence-based teaching strategies with Paul Kirschner https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zgw6i-13b33df
Ep 3. The Science of Math with Amanda VanDerHeyden https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-bksbz-13c732d
Ep 4. Cognitive load theory with Greg Ashman https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-thbad-13cea56
Ep 17. Do timed tests cause math anxiety? with Robin Codding https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-9qahp-14aed8a
Ep 20. Reading and math: parallels and pitfalls with Matthew Burns https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-8aj3f-1508af6
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-29-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-29-resources
MUSIC
Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it
Blue Dot Sessions – Town Market, Spindash, Cornicob
Podington Bear – Camp
Website: www.annastokke.com
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c

Autism and evidence-based math instruction with Katharine Beals (Ep 28)

In episode 28, math professor Anna Stokke interviews Dr. Katharine Beals, who is a linguist and expert in using evidence-based instruction to teach students with autism.  Katharine is the author of several books on autism, including one focused on autism-friendly curriculum and instruction.
They begin the episode with an overview of autism, where Katharine describes some of its defining characteristics and the skills typically affected. She discusses how autism impacts math learning and some common instructional techniques that can negatively impact autistic students. They then discuss what research suggests are the most effective instructional methods for students with autism.
Along the way, they discuss facilitated communication, and Katharine recommends math programs that are particularly well-suited for autistic individuals.
A key takeaway from this conversation is that many instructional techniques that are most effective for students with autism benefit the majority of students, but poor instructional methods more adversely affect those with autism. This fascinating and highly informative conversation is a must-listen for educators and anyone passionate about education.
PREVIOUS EPISODES MENTIONED
Ep 21. The right to learn math with Daniel Ansari https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-4nv9n-1527568
Ep 25. Understanding math reform ideology with Tom Loveless https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-7ih4c-15dbf9a
Ep 27. Using evidence in education with Pamela Snow https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-jc9mq-161ecac
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-28-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-28-resources
MUSIC
Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it
Blue Dot Sessions – Inamorata, Town Market, The Gran Dias
Podington Bear – Lakeside Path, Camp
Website: www.annastokke.com
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c

Using evidence in education with Pamela Snow (Ep 27)

In Episode 27, math professor Anna Stokke talks with Dr. Pamela Snow, a cognitive psychology professor at La Trobe University’s School of Education in Australia.    She is renowned for her expertise in language and literacy instruction and co-founded the Science of Language and Reading (SOLAR) Lab at La Trobe, which assists schools in adopting scientific approaches to enhance reading instruction.
Pamela emphasizes viewing school as a health intervention and effective language and reading instruction as a social justice issue.  The conversation spans a range of topics, including evidence-based methods for teaching reading, the golden mean fallacy in education, and foundational skills in both reading and math.  They also discuss ways to improve teacher preparation and whether programs like the one at La Trobe might start emerging in other universities.  This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in education, whether from a reading perspective or a math perspective.
PREVIOUS EPISODES MENTIONED
Ep 17. Do timed tests cause math anxiety? with Robin Codding https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-9qahp-14aed8a
Ep 20.  Reading and math: parallels and pitfalls with Matthew Burns https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-8aj3f-1508af6
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-27-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-27-resources
MUSIC
Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it
Blue Dot Sessions – Balti, Coulis Coulis, Lissa, Cornicob
Podington Bear – Proliferate
Website: www.annastokke.com
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c

Cognitive load theory in math class with David Morkunas (Ep 26)

In Episode 26, math professor Anna Stokke is joined by David Morkunas, who is an Australian teacher and numeracy learning specialist.  Their conversation focusses on practical applications of cognitive load theory and explicit instruction for teaching math. 
They discuss David’s role in overseeing a primary math program.  He shares strategies for incorporating cognitive science principles into daily math reviews.  They discuss the significance of standard algorithms and explore David’s strategies for teaching them.  They talk about the role of manipulatives, math anxiety and fostering motivation in math class.  Anna also asked David to recommend resources for further exploration of explicit instruction and cognitive load theory.
This episode is packed with actionable advice for teaching math.  David’s infectious passion for math and his skill in applying effective teaching methods make this an invaluable episode for educators and math education enthusiasts. 
PREVIOUS EPISODES MENTIONED
Raising student achievement with Dylan Wiliam: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-kduiw-15bba36
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-26-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-26-resources
MUSIC
Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it
Blue Dot Sessions – Town Market, Balti
Podington Bear – Camp, Proliferate
Website: www.annastokke.com
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c

Understanding math reform ideology with Tom Loveless (Ep 25)

In this episode, math professor Anna Stokke is joined by education policy expert, Dr. Tom Loveless.  They discuss the National Math Advisory Panel and some of the recommendations in from its final report.  They talk about the influential 1989 NCTM standards and their global impact on math education as well as the history of the math wars.
Tom discusses some of his concerns about the California Math Framework and whether its recommendations are aligned with those in the National Math Advisory Panel report.  They cover many other topics such as San Francisco’s unsuccessful de-tracking initiative and the importance of memorizing math facts.  This episode is a must listen for anyone who teaches math, as well as parents and policymakers.
PREVIOUS EPISODES MENTIONED
Red flags in education research with Ben Solomon (Ep 23)
Modern relevance in the math curriculum with Brian Conrad (Ep 15) 
California’s math controversy with Jelani Nelson, Part I (Ep 11)
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-25-transcript
EPISODE RESOURCES
https://www.annastokke.com/ep-25-resources
MUSIC
Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it
Blue Dot Sessions – Avoiding the Backdrop, Godmother’s Visit, Lakeside Path, Momentary Ease, Sonatina Kemf
Komiku – Bleu
Podington Bear - Kitten
Website: www.annastokke.com
X: @rastokke
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c